MikeKanarek: From UK : Great Post
- March 23rd, 2010
- Posted in HaganaH NUCLEUS
- By Mike Lee Kanarek
- Write comment
| THIS was posted on my www.fight2survive.com forum by my representive in England. GREAT post Darren, keep up the good work in between those Tea and Cookies breaks |
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| In the course of promoting HaganaH in the UK, I’ve been drawn into several discussions with practitioners of other systems, who have questioned the effectiveness & validity of our knife defences. In the spirit of our system, to remain proactive, I carried out some supplementary intelligence gathering based on actual data available on knife attacks from LEO, Medical and Coroners reports, I will come on to that in a moment.One of the most common criticisms levelled is that our straight stab defence is entirely reliant on an attacker making a single lunging /stabbing motion to the torso or abdomen, which it is alleged, is un-realistic in a real-life encounter.This criticism seems to be based entirely on a belief being promoted in many systems that, in reality, a straight, forward stabbing attack will come as a series of fast repeated (& frenzied) thrusts with the intent of inflicting multiple wounds, rather than a single straight forward lunge.On face value, this concept appears entirely feasible when demonstrated, particularly when both attacks are sold to the un-initiated with the choice, “Which do you think is more likely”.
However, a fundamental misunderstanding of the dynamics of this type of attack, together with an ignorance of what is proven to happen, appears to be sending many systems back to the old practice of teaching what they would “Like to think” would happen rather than what factual data proves. As a result, many systems have gone full circle in their hypothesis, back into the realms of fantasy. Whilst the prospect of a frenzied and repeated stabbing attack should not be entirely ruled out, it is generally a method far more common amongst prison inmates. Wound data collated from medical & coroners reports confirms this is not the most common type of knife attack which generally occurs in the street. In a 2006 study conducted by the FBI entitled, “Edged weapons: traditional and emerging threats to law enforcement”. By L. Frank Thompson and Charlie Mesloh, Ph.D. the following conclusions were made. 1) The average number of wounds sustained in a knife attack is 1 2) In one study, 50% of all single wound assaults were fatal. 3) If you are male, you are almost twice as likely to sustain multiple stab wounds from a female attacker than a male attacker. (No jokes about ex-wives & them being in the back please gentlemen!) 4) In the vast majority of fatal stabbings, a single stab wound to the chest/torso area directly into the heart or heart/lungs was the cause of death. In the first 5 months of 2009 there were almost 20 fatal stabbings in London. In virtually all of these cases, death was caused by a single stab wound to the torso/abdomen. On a personal note, just 3 weeks ago a good friend (& work colleague on my watch) whilst off duty, rendered first aid to a member of public fatally stabbed in the street. The individual subsequently died from…you’ve guessed it…a single stab wound to the chest. The purpose of this post was to confirm to any doubters, that the knife defences that Mike has incorporated into the HaganaH system are in complete accord with factual data regarding the most common types of attack & on a tactical level represent the best possible model for survivability. For those interested in reading the full study it can be found here: Train Smart, Train HaganaH! Regards Darren Le Fevre |
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This was a great post, and good info for all practitioners and operators… highlights the crucial skill of reading the attack correctly and deploying appropriate response. Stress and scramble drills really help improve this once a solid technical foundation is created, train hard – stay safe:)!!!
Hi Darren-
I agree, great post. And, the great thing about the defense against the straight stab is that it takes you to the same POR as most of the other knife defenses – where you are secure and can choose your objective for ending the engagement.
I have seen knife defenses where the defender (and the system) merely hold the wirst of the knife hand while countering (or hold the arm with an over or underhand grip. Lacking a POR (and the concept), the defense is tactically deficient – it assumes that the counter attacks are sufficient to prevent the attacker from breaking loose with the knife and stabbing again.
My guess is that the exposure to multiple thrusts increases when a defense is actually undertaken and the first stab is blocked. That is why we at Haganah believe that there is little point in blocking (or stopping) the first stab and not progressing to a secure position – our knife POR.
alright let me take a “stab” at this post…
The straight stab is a perfect example of the evolution that took place into formulating the HaganaH system’s principle of capturing the POR.
First let me start by saying that this post, or blog so to speak, is not designed to discredit Krav Maga as a system or Any Krav Maga instructor out-there. I have a lot of respect for my direct Krav Maga Instructor/s and others.
In the straight stab defense the entry dealing with the attack is 100% identical to Krav’s…but that is where the similarities end. Right after the entry HaganaH practionners will press their left forearm (given the fact that they are right handed)and will step in with their right foot to tighten up the distance to capture a TIGHT POR. It is crucial to capture that POR in a tight manner that there is no “day light” between the defender’s chest and the attacker’s arm, so the attacker can not yank his arm out and slash/carve the defender in the process!
From that point on the defender will deploy 3 viscous low line knees and proceed to one of 3 objectives…
In Krav after the entry the defender will grab the attackers wrist, kick him in the groin and go for a disarm from that position and continue with counter attacks.
2 totally different methods in principle and operation.
When developing HaganaH I felt the Krav entry was solid , and in this case better than the “seizing the attacker’s arm” method, due to the fact that you will have to maneuver your body backward either with your footwork or with scooping your body inward to be able to effectively seize the attacker’s arm like in angle 1,2,3 and 4 attacks…however , I felt that grabbing the wrist of the attacker from that point on would be too risky to : 1) end up grabbing the blade of the knife instead of the wrist 2) end up not having enough control by simply grabbing his wrist, giving the stronger of the 2 in this engagement the advantage
I could have easily continue to teach the Krav Maga technique, but who ever knows me personally knows that if I find a better way I will abort the “now” old way and will adapt to the better technique. In fact that is the reason why I DON’T teach Krav Maga. Because I did change some techniques in formulating HaganaH . In the early years of me developing HaganaH one of my Krav Maga Instructors said to me ” Mickey, I know what you saying…but , its going to be hard for you to come up with your own style. The true last person that did that was Bruce Lee” I said : ” I have to go with what I believe ” then he said : ” So you telling me you believe you are the next Bruce Lee?” I said : ” I don’t think I am the next Bruce Lee, I am the first Mike Lee Kanarek! ”
Until today my Krav Maga Instructor and I remain close friends, we sometimes agree on techniques and sometimes agree to disagree…
at the end of the day my motivation has always been to give my students the Best self-defense solution there is to the scenarios, knife attacks and gun threats out-there. I believe the POR is a VERY effective self-defense tool that will help those you use it to survive an all out violent attack!
Great insight!!!!!!
Someone on Facebook posted a video of real knife attacks caught on film from surveillance cameras, and it was really eye-opening to see just how random these attacks are. Believe it or not, people actually do go for the overhead ice pick attack more times than you’d think. I agree with you, Stu; recognition and stress drills are crucial.
POR is king, no matter how you look at it!!!
this is a great post, Mike you are a pioneer !!! It is always great to see people with passion for what they do.
I am a professional fireman 21 yrs in a major city on the east coast of USA. Of all the emergency calls I responded to that involved stabbings, all the victims had one stab wound to the torso, either front or back. The victims that had multipile stab wounds were from multipile attackers where the victime was jumped. Street fights with knives, (in my experience) are quick, stab and run. How do I know these stats….? the victims that live tell you their side of the story….and it was always…this guy just reached out and “poked” or “shoved” me. And with the dead victims there was always a witness(s) There were times when we rolled up to a dead body with no witness(s)around, but I would say about 80% of those victims had one wound to the torso. Street gangs like to “sneak attack” from behind and stab. I doubt there is a defense for that in any form of self defense. In 21 yrs on the job I was shot at once, threatend with a sword and a knife.. I feel safer because of HaganaH, Mike Lee Kanarek and my instructor, Master DeJesus. Again this is just my two cents worth. S.U.B.
” So you telling me you believe you are the next Bruce Lee?” I said : ” I don’t think I am the next Bruce Lee, I am the first Mike Lee Kanarek! ”
Great answer!!!!
POR is the constant that, I think, gives the Haganah practitioner the advantage. Thanks Mike.
Dr Joe,
Now, people tent to confuse me more with the Zohan than with Bruce Lee lol
Do you wonder why, Mike? I still think Adam Sandler has to be a personal friend of yours! You Don’t Mess with the Zohan! Now go have some hummus . . .
Sam…
I love what I do and passion is what I bring to the table when I teach HaganaH, I believe it is indeed the best self-defense system out there and it is HaganaH Black Belts like yourself that help spread the word.
Thank you for your passion for HaganaH!